David Graeber vs. Thomas Hobbes

How does it happened that 1% of the population made everyone else believe that we live in a world of Mr. Hobbes?

However, most of us are not aware of Thomas Hobbes’ existence and definitely don’t share his principles?

Thomas Hobbes and his supporters position:

Hobbes discovered social machinery (the state) that he thinks makes it possible to reduce or even eliminate violence in our societies greatly. For years we have been using Thomas Hobbes’ social discovery, and, according to numerous studies, levels of social violence are declining and may soon disappear. Reality is divine and beyond human control. We can obey the laws and then gradually avoid punishment.

David Graeber and his supporters position:

The question we should be asking is not why people are sometimes cruel, or even why a few people are usually cruel (all evidence suggests true sadists are an extremely small proportion of the population overall), but how we have come to create institutions that encourage such behavior and that suggest cruel people are in some ways admirable-or at least as deserving of sympathy as those they push around. The ultimate, hidden truth of the world is that it is something that we make, and could just as easily make differently.”

And here, the first phrases of the dialogue:

Hobbes: –We constantly observe Bellum omnium contra omnes. Wars and crimes surround us. We are the product of millions of years of evolution, and conflict is a natural human condition.

David:– Having conflict from time to time is indeed a natural human state, but conflict can be resolved peacefully, or it can turn into perpetual discord, but it doesn’t have to end in violence.

You seem to think that violence is an essential part of the process of dialogue. On the other hand, I believe that it is the opposite: dialogue actually ends the moment violence begins. If you have nothing to say to the other person, if you have literally lost the power of speech, the only thing left is to hit him over the head with a stick. But what is especially human about the loss of the ability to talk?

Here Steven Bachler and I writing our vision of this imaginary Fight. If you have ideas or quotes you want to share, please, send them to us.

Here is the final version of the script that was written with the consultation with Simona Ferlini, Steven Bachler, Joshua Simon and Vadim Maximov

Here is the photos and the description of the Fight Club that took place in HKW, Berlin in May 2022

David Graeber and David Harvey had a rather peaceful conversation.
Despite being unbelievably cheerful, David was always ready for a fight.
What would Thomas Hobbes wear?